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Brrr-FrostNZ
Maitre d'
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 170
Location: Auckland, New Zealand (Expat)
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 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:12 am Post subject: Graffiti Room imports |
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Apologies if this tickles the 'to do list...' but thought I’d offer it nevertheless
Observation…I am presuming that you will at some point be able to import a graffiti snapshot into another room to continue on from that point; just not yet since we are still in Beta...
Idea…
Closely related to this comes another possibility… Could we have the ability to import a graffiti snapshot and use it as the background for yet another room… i.e. it remains as imported and new drawing updates over the top do not erase the imported image.
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This would work for…
1. Another graffiti room… just imagine the potential for layers… (Ok you can’t edit the past layers but they could look awesome) building up a huge, intricate and complicated image… or
2. With even more stunning potential, the ability to load graffiti as the background for mosaics…
I think I just dribbled…
Brrr… |
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MorningStar
Maitre d'
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:35 am Post subject: |
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No you didn't dribble at all. Once again, you're trumpeting out our secret plans! 
Not only will you be able to use any artwork (graffiti or mosaic) as backdrop for any new artwork (graffiti or e mosaic), you'll also be able to upload and use your own photos and image files.
There, I said it!
The implications of this are manyfold. In your own room...
* You'll be able to make mosaics with unlimited tiles.
* You'll be able to create freehand art with unlimited strokes.
* You'll be able to mix and match mosaic, graffiti and photos. |
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Olesniczanin
Head Waiter
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Oleśnica, Poland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Impressing. If it keeps on developing so fast, we will soon be able to make oil paintings with our computers  .
Seriously, won't it be too much? I mean 'You'll be able to make mosaics with unlimited tiles.' and 'you'll also be able to upload and use your own photos and image files.' What do you think? |
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MorningStar
Maitre d'
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Re: "you'll be able to make mosaics with unlimited tiles."
Basically this just means, you can finish a mosaic, take a snapshot, then use that snapshot as new backdrop on yet another 1000 tiles, etc etc.
Will this be used a lot? Probably not. My guess is it's particularly interesting if you ever run out of tiles, but it's not really the same as really having unlimited tiles in a room at the same time.
The same goes for Graffiti. I'm sure there's going to be really interesting stuff coming out from mixing Graffiti backdrops with mosaics and vice versa, but I guess it won't be used just to layer thousands and thousands of tiles.
The photo thing on the other hand has many interesting applications. Just think of "Connect the dots" and "Painting by numbers"... |
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GO GO
Maitre d'
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 334
Location: in a bunker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: |
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well so far i have been keeping my mouth shut  bcoz i thought why request features on something which is still in beta but now since everyone is talking so...
1.mosaic with unlimited tiles by tweaking background feature , interesting idea but then say goodbye to our 1000 tiles limitation thing which made everything so special and it was also a common thing among every artwork.
2.unlimited strokes again by tweaking background feature? mmm sounds like rough layer system to me 
3.PHOTOS? IN ARTWORK? meh this i dont like ok i know we can actually do this in the current system as well but still i dont quite have right feeling but its just me.
and can in future we have ability to mish mash our rooms with other rooms? to make a sorta giant artwork
which is just made up of jpegs of rooms?  |
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MorningStar
Maitre d'
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Yes it is in a way a rough layer system.
Gogo, you are right - removing limitations is a double-edged sword. Limitations can sometimes be so limiting that a particular artform becomes interesting for a few talented artists only.
The problem is that TheBroth has to succeed as a business - thus we need to make it better and more flexible so that more users can have fun with it.
Just like graffiti will NOT replace mosaic - just as tile rotation has not rendered the "classic" mosaics any worse - the effort that goes into making great stuff will remain and thanks to TheBroth and it's detailed tracking, it will remain quite visible.
You'll be able to tell apart a photo of President Bush on which someone painted glasses, devil's horns and a goatee from an artwork where photographic background, mosaic tiles and graffiti strokes have been used for great artistic effect.
Nevertheless, it's fun and entertaining to paint on a picture of celebrities and/or famous people. Is it art? Probably not. Is it a lot of fun - I think yes.
I think TheBroth in its spirit is a big mix (a mish mash if you want!) of all sorts of art forms, things and different users that use TheBroth for different things. Yes I can't wait until we've got music too.
Doesn't mean that art won't be appreciated as art anymore! There'll still be rating and there'll be galleries, but there'll also be a lot more fun stuff that's more game-like, such as puzzles etc, slide shows, movies...
TheBroth won't (and can't!) try to please everyone. Our core principles will remain - Live art that's fun, Live art collaboration that's fun...
Our vision of TheBroth is one where TheBroth is THE place where people from all over the world can meet to be creative together. Content sharing is good, but shared creation is even better. |
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GO GO
Maitre d'
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 334
Location: in a bunker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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mmm so future of TheBroth is about "shared creation" in all possible ways.btw i like the line "Content sharing is good, but shared creation is even better."
and what u said about "music"??? |
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PanterA
Maitre d'
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Just like graffiti will NOT replace mosaic - just as tile rotation has not rendered the "classic" mosaics any worse |
Tile rotation did change the classic mosaic.
with tile rotation came multi move.
multi move is in classic mosaics and therefore It's not classic anymore..
| Quote: | | - the effort that goes into making great stuff will remain and thanks to TheBroth and it's detailed tracking, it will remain quite visible. |
I don't think the effort that goes into making great stuff will remain.
well..
if you look at the graffiti pictures in the gallery..
4 out of 5 in the Best recent artworks is graffiti.
You have to admit that all the graffiti's are in top.
Number one of them is snapped 3 days ago and is already in number 9. in the best recent!
all respect to helpful walrus this is a great pic.
but how much effort did you put into it?
DIFFERENT GALLERY FOR DIFFERENT ARTFORM!
why not?
why not a different gallery? |
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GO GO
Maitre d'
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 334
Location: in a bunker
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| yup thats what i wanna point out since future is so diverse how is it all gonna be classified? will it be divided into different categories? or will it be like use everything u can to make an artwork.plain and simple. |
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Dolph
Developer
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| PanterA wrote: |
I don't think the effort that goes into making great stuff will remain...
all respect to helpful walrus this is a great pic.
but how much effort did you put into it?
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 Why should it be about effort though? I don't think you really vote based on effort. If people were to vote based on the effort that the artist expended all of us non-artists would have much higher ranking artworks because it's a lot harder for us to produce artworks.
Should a 50 stroke 'funny' artwork not get a + just because it only took the artist 2 minutes to draw?
Btw, you can get more of an idea of how much effort is put into the graffiti artworks using the graffiti replay (BETA): http://www.thebroth.com/replay19783.html |
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MorningStar
Maitre d'
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| PanterA wrote: | | Quote: | | Just like graffiti will NOT replace mosaic - just as tile rotation has not rendered the "classic" mosaics any worse |
Tile rotation did change the classic mosaic.
with tile rotation came multi move.
multi move is in classic mosaics and therefore It's not classic anymore.. |
Maybe I've been misunderstood. I'll try to phrase it better and make it clearer. Tile rotation has not rendered the existing "classic" artworks (that still rank very highly) any worse. The effort and talent that went into these artworks is still very apparent.
Personally, I'm glad that we now have multimove and rotation and textures and all that jazz. Even so - great artworks of the "masters" remain great even though technology advances and helps us to create great stuff with less time and effort. Yet - for me this doesn't take anything at all away from my admiration of the "classic" mosaics that were done at a time when there were no tools of any kind available.
| PanterA wrote: | | Quote: | | - the effort that goes into making great stuff will remain and thanks to TheBroth and it's detailed tracking, it will remain quite visible. |
I don't think the effort that goes into making great stuff will remain. |
I hope that that new tools and features make making great stuff easier with less effort. What I wanted to say (but stuffed up with bad grammar) was that the effort that goes into making great stuff will remain quite visible.
It's easy to tell a mosaic apart from a graffiti. Mosaics tend to take longer to make. Are they therefore better? Probably not. A great artwork is a great artwork, and as TheBroth designers we're working on solutions so that one can see how an artwork was created.
The effort will remain visible. If a talented artist can produce something remarkable in graffiti in two minutes flat, well that's still amazing and remarkable! More power to those that can produce great stuff and make it seem effortless.
== About separate galleries ==
TheBroth is constantly evolving and we need to be careful to not confuse legacy and how things were once with how they should be. Having said that, separate galleries make sense and we're working on solutions to this. More about this in future posts.
I feel an important question in this context is this:
Do you (talking to everyone here) want to have separate galleries so YOU can see them separately, or do you want to have OTHERS to see separate galleries? |
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Olesniczanin
Head Waiter
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Oleśnica, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for grumbling again but I feel I must say that.
| MorningStar wrote: | | TheBroth won't (and can't!) try to please everyone. |
It seems like it's just what you want to do, really.
You said you created graffiti to let more people make great artworks with less effort. We've resigned ourselves to having graffiti. We accepted it. But I think mosaics should remain intact as a kind of 'elite' form of art. I mean that it's ok if there is many form of art less laborious but one 'more laborious' form should remain intact. It'll be good to have mosaics the way they are today. It would be some kind of higher level which will be a goal for newcomers. They would 'train' making other forms of art to make a mosaic one day.
That's why I think you shouldn't lift the tile limit.
I'm aware it's a business and you need more users. But is making theBroth worse (<-in my humble opinion) the only way to reach that goal?
Making mosaics less laborious will be just diluting them. I hope theBroth won't become diluted.
That's all from me. |
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MorningStar
Maitre d'
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Olesniczanin wrote: | | Sorry for grumbling again but I feel I must say that. |
Your grumbling is very welcome! You have been and I hope will continue to make excellent suggestions! Without this valuable feedback, TheBroth certainly wouldn't be where it is right now. Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming!
| Olesniczanin wrote: | | I think mosaics should remain intact as a kind of 'elite' form of art. |
Fear not - mosaics are here to stay. Personally, I wish it wouldn't become some sort of elite art form, but I certainly greatly enjoy mosaic art as it is being produced right now (and I know many - if not all - other "TheBrothers" do as well) and I see no reason to remove it.
| Olesniczanin wrote: | | That's why I think you shouldn't lift the tile limit. |
I think we agree on most aspects anyway. For example, we certainly don't have any plans to lift the tile limit.
| Olesniczanin wrote: | | But is making theBroth worse (<-in my humble opinion) the only way to reach that goal? (more users) |
Well... we're not exactly trying to make TheBroth worse. But I need to know specifics: Which of our efforts do you feel make TheBroth worse?
| Olesniczanin wrote: | | Making mosaics less laborious will be just diluting them. |
Hmm - we have no further plans or even ideas on how to make making mosaics less laborious.
So far, we've tried our best to add features to make making mosaics less laborious, such as multi tile move and "slide under", but they are now all implemented.
I want to make sure I really understand what you're saying. Are you saying you wish you wouldn't have these tools available to you? Or do you wish others shouldn't have them available to them? |
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MorningStar
Maitre d'
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Oles, actually I think you probably don't even need to answer my questions in the previous post - I get the impression that you DO like the multimove and the slide under.
I just admired your absolutely amazing recent "4 musicians" artwork. The level of detail is brilliant!
The replay of this artwork reveals you used the multimove and the slide under quite a bit.
No doubt that helped a little bit when making the mosaic. I wouldn't rank this artwork any higher or lower, like it better or less, if multimove/slide-under features weren't available.
Similarly, I glad we have tile rotation, background colors and textures! Long live mosaics! |
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Olesniczanin
Head Waiter
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Oleśnica, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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MorningStar, I think we got each other wrong.
| MorningStar wrote: |
Your grumbling is very welcome! You have been and I hope will continue to make excellent suggestions! Without this valuable feedback, TheBroth certainly wouldn't be where it is right now. Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming! |
Thanks, I'm glad you appreciate it . I just sometimes feel that I'm talking to much and it must be annoying that I keep on disagreeing all the time .
| MorningStar wrote: | | Olesniczanin wrote: | | I think mosaics should remain intact as a kind of 'elite' form of art. |
Fear not - mosaics are here to stay. Personally, I wish it wouldn't become some sort of elite art form, but I certainly greatly enjoy mosaic art as it is being produced right now (and I know many - if not all - other "TheBrothers" do as well) and I see no reason to remove it. |
I'm not afraid you will remove it (that would be a crime!). I'm just afraid mosaics will be changed.
| MorningStar wrote: |
| Olesniczanin wrote: | | That's why I think you shouldn't lift the tile limit. |
I think we agree on most aspects anyway. For example, we certainly don't have any plans to lift the tile limit. |
Well, when you said | MorningStar wrote: | Re: "you'll be able to make mosaics with unlimited tiles."
Basically this just means, you can finish a mosaic, take a snapshot, then use that snapshot as new backdrop on yet another 1000 tiles, etc etc. |
I thought it will be tantamount to lifting the limit.
| MorningStar wrote: | | Well... we're not exactly trying to make TheBroth worse. But I need to know specifics: Which of our efforts do you feel make TheBroth worse? |
Again, don't get me wrong, please . I appeciate the tons of work you do to improve theBroth, make it more attractive, versatile and easy to use. Thanks to you, all the devs, we have a lot of fun and a place to get a kick out of making art . I'm just worried that some changes will be 'too much' and will spoil the broth. Nevertheless you're the bosses and you decide.
| MorningStar wrote: | | I want to make sure I really understand what you're saying. Are you saying you wish you wouldn't have these tools available to you? Or do you wish others shouldn't have them available to them? |
I didn't say that at all. I love tile-rotation, multi-move, slide-under, textures and so on. They made our mosaics not only easier but first and foremost more precise and detailed. I would do without them.
What I mean is that I'm afraid of new things like lifting the limit, which I consider as changing the rules which limit us somehow but are simply necessary (imho). |
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